Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter

The recent diary poll asking readers whether they would vote McCain if their choice of candidate lost the nomination was distubing and frustrating.  

I understand and can empathize with Clinton supporters who feel frustrated, angry, pissed off, and mad.  If the shoe were on the other foot, I would feel the same way.  I think the anger is particularly acute because Clinton is a smart, tough candidate who was very much a part of an Administration that presided over relative peace and enormous prosperity, and who was understandably seen for that reason as the likely Democratic nominee.  Then here comes Obama, from Chicago, with that smile and that charm and the "Hope" and the big speeches and the rallies, and boom boom boom just like that he wins Iowa, and Hillary is in third place, and the sweats take hold.  And then boom boom boom there goes South Carolina and 11 other contests and suddenly political obituaries are being written.  All in the span of eight weeks.

Yeah, no shit I'd be pissed off.  I'd be pissed at Mark Penn, Patty Solis Doyle--who quite honestly should be tried for malfesance given her handling of the finances--and I'd be pissed at all the other campaign advisors who started convincing Hillary to take different tacks after she successfully found her voice in New Hampshire.  Oh yeah, Cholo, I would be muy muy pissed off.  

And I completely empathize with the reaction from that anger being directed at Obama.  Clinton supporters prefer to varying degrees, from mild to deep-to-the-marrow conviction, Clinton over Obama.  That is why they are Clinton supporters.

So I think it is natural that Obama takes the heat of that anger.  It is very easy (too distressingly easy, in my book) to confuse his charm and easy manner with arrogance and elitism.  Plus, yes, I can see how the whole rock star quality of his campaign annoys people.  Oprah annoys me for that reason, and yet I have never really listened to her or watched her show.  It's a uniquely American cultural thing.  People hated Bobby Kennedy for that, they really did, if you can imagine.

Add all that up and you get a pretty strong anti-Obama sentiment from Clinton supporters.  And vice versa, for different reasons.

All that is fine, and tolerable.

But if you are going to vote for McCain because you cannot vote Obama, or are not going to vote at all, then my empathy stops at the shore of your vast ocean of unreason.  

If you care about the very issues that your candidate cares about, if your candidates' views are the reason you are going to battle for your candidate on the blogs everyday--because you want the war in Iraq to end sooner rather than later (or never), because you want healthcare for as many Americans as possible, because you want to see the restoration of basic fucking civil rights that are at the core of the Constitution (and yet which have been so blithely tossed aside by the current Administration with the assent of almost all other Republicans, including McCain), if you want a Supreme Court that looks more like America and less like a meeting at the Willard Hotel of the Fedewralist Society, if you want a better plan for restoring the economy, growing jobs, improving education, and protecting the environment...

If you care about all of that, but still announce you are going to vote for McCain, then you do not believe what you say you believe.  Either that or you are not thinking clearly.

In which case I must be mistaken.  Because I thought unthinking and spite were characteristics of Republicans, not us.  Not Democrats.  


Poll
What say you?
I strongly agree
I agree
I disagree
I strongly disagree

Votes: 24
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


The wounds are too fresh (2.00 / 3)

Your logic is unassailable, but people are just too pissed right now to indicate a vote in their best interest if that vote isn't for their candidate.

Clinton and Obama are what, something like 90% similar in their policy votes?  More even?

I'd vote for either of them, regardless of my mild objections to Sen. Clinton.


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:08:44 PM EST

I think that many of us don't know if we will vote (none / 0)

for the other Dem candidate if our candidate did not win, but I really doubt that practically any of us would vote for McCain.

I resent people trying to get people to commit to voting for the Dem candiate, nomatter what they do, because obviously, Obama plans to swing right if he gets the nomination. If he gets the Dem nomination, and then afterward, does that, I think many people may think they want to keep whatever options they have left open.

Not voting for him in the GE in protest is the only reasonable one I can think of.


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Without a REAL committment to it, we WON'T win in November.
by architek on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:44:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think that many of us don't know if we will (none / 0)

I have my doubts that Clinton is as liberal as she is seeming...

I think she is campaigning Left to govern Right.

She her comments about the Middle East sounded hawkish to me...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:48:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think that many of us don't know if we will (none / 0)

She's re-paying a large contingent of exclusive donors, there.


by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:52:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My objections to Clinton are legion (2.00 / 3)

She's waged the dirtiest, most despicable, passive-aggressive, whiny, dishonest campaign I've seen in my lifetime from a Democrat. I've never been so disappointed in and disgusted with a candidate (especially one I've spent a decade and a half campaigning for and defending).

Her incessant whining to the refs about the MSNBC debate (which was the fairest debate ever aired compared to Wednesdays'), the caucuses, MI and FL (after her own campaign voted for the sanctions), "misogyny" at every turn, her lies about NAFTA, her BS about "bitter" and "elite," her attacks on the Democratic brand.. I can't even listen to her or look at her, she makes me so ill. The obvious collusion with her monkey-boy in the "debate" and her then accusing Obama of not being able to "take it" (when he brushed it off quite nicely and in fact turned it into a campaigning point) was the icing on the cake. I will NEVER forgive her or like her or defend her for this betrayal.

And you know what? She's still a freaking saint compared to the GOP. And her platform is not far from Obama's. I vote with my party because of its platform, not its players.


by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:51:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My objections to Clinton are legion (none / 0)

Wow.  You've put forth a GREAT argument.  Convinced me.  I'll support Obama now.  NOT!


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:54:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama speaks for himself (2.00 / 1)

I don't speak for Obama, I speak as someone who was a Kucinich supporter, then an Edwards supporter, and am only an Obama supporter because Hillary has made supporting her ethically impossible for me.

If you still support Hillary after all she shit she's pulled, people like me staying mum about it wouldn't bring you to Obama regardless.


by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:10:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama speaks for himself (none / 0)

Dude, you obviously can't even speak for yourself.  Not trying to hammer on you but it's all hyperbole.  Smacks of Koo-Aid.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:14:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This from the McCain voter (none / 0)

Go back to redstate, troll


by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:21:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama speaks for himself (none / 0)

What exactly is Koo-Aid...?


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:56:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My objections to Clinton are legion (none / 0)

Exactly how I feel.

I'm utterly disgusted with her.

The first politician since Reagan I have to turn off as soon as the mouth opens because of the crawling of my flesh.

And I defended the Clinton presidency from start to finish.

However, I'll vote for her over McCain. Otherwise we lose our country.


John McCain: Cheney with a temper
by wrb on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 06:19:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (2.00 / 2)

In the primary you vote with your heart, in the general you vote with your head. While I do fear that some Clinton supporters self identify and internalize a bit too much with their candidate and will resent Obama for prevailing against the first viable female candidate for the Presidency I believe in the end when people rationally compare the two choices in the general election voting for the Democratic nominee will be quite obvious.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:10:43 PM EST

Why are you Obama folk so obsessed with this issue (none / 0)

??

Do you know something about Obama's plans you aren't talking about?


Universal healthcare IS a core Democratic value
Without a REAL committment to it, we WON'T win in November.
by architek on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:46:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why are you Obama folk so obsessed with this i (none / 0)

Huh?


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:58:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why are you Obama folk so obsessed (none / 0)

Swim back from the deep-end, friend.


by rfahey22 on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:00:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Although you must admit.. (2.00 / 1)

the number of Hillary supporters who swear they'll vote McCain if the nomination isn't HANDED to them despite the pledged delegate count and the popular vote, and their willingness to exploit Operation Chaos for their own purposes (to the tune of going on Limbaugh's show on primary day in TX to "get out the vote") really lends credence to the accusation that the Clinton machine is not made of real Democrats.

Same with their willingness to cannibalize the Democratic brand by dismissing core progressive groups like MoveOn, and dissing liberal voters as "Prius-driving, latte-sipping, tree-hugging elitists."

I dunno. If "Reagan Democrats" of that sort make up Clinton's base, McCain can have them. We'll make up the difference in new voters.


by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:37:36 PM EST

Re: Although you must admit.. (2.00 / 3)

I drive a Hyundai (couldn't afford the Prius), prefer coffee, I have hugged a tree but that was to avoid falling out of it...

And you forgot to mention the Birkenstocks....


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:41:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (none / 0)

You miss the point entirely.  
Hillary's supporters are angry because of the campaign Obama has run.  It culminated in the "first black president" and his wife, a Democratic presidnetial candidate, being smeared as racists by another Democratic presidential candidate.  
Secondly, any Hillary supporter that "protests" a Barack nomination by sitting out the GE or voting for McSame is as democratic a gesture as voting for Obama.  Uniquely American.
Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:45:47 PM EST

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (2.00 / 5)

Do whatever gets you through the freakin' day.

I have seen Clinton supporters blame Obama himself, Obama's campaign, Obama supporters, the media, Obama surrogates, Howard Dean, FL and MI, Donna Brazille, Nancy Pelosi, Senator Kennedy, racism, sexism, misogyny, dandruff, fingers, Keith Olbermann, and many others...

Seriously, whatever excuse makes you feel better... fine.  At the end of the day, it is your vote.  But I see little use in crowing about making the choice in a Democratic blog.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:53:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (none / 0)

So, in a Democratic blog, I can't speak about democracy if I don't support Obama?


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:58:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (2.00 / 1)

In a Democratic or Progressive blog, you can speak about any number of things, but be prepared for some blowback if you start crowing about voting for John McCain.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:01:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (none / 0)

Fully prepared.  In fact, my comments are blowback to this diary.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:04:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (2.00 / 1)

Whatever you want to do.


by Mostly on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:03:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

(Comment Deleted) (1.00 / 1)

This comment has been deleted by an administrator.


by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:19:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You can't campaign for a Republican (1.00 / 2)

Your mother must be proud of you!


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:25:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Seriously, get lost (none / 0)

This blog is for Democrats. It's for people who believe in the Democratic platform, and who oppose the GOP agenda. Whatever differences we have, we are family. Some family members don't like each other. Some aren't even speaking.

But they don't stab their own in the back, especially not in the voting booth, which is what you are advocating.

If you are going to campaign for the neo-cons here, whose bidding McCain does, you don't belong here.


by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:30:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seriously, get lost (none / 0)

Seriously!  You crossed the line.  Just sent emails to the administrators copying your remarks.  Now YOU get lost!


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Seriously, get lost (none / 0)

Yes, don't let any protest of mine deter you from your Republican campaigning on this blog. Please continue arguing why a McCain vote is a good idea.

Enjoy the torture, loss of Roe v. Wade, war with Iran, and destruction of the middle class.

We'll remember who to thank.


by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 05:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (Comment Deleted) (none / 0)

ruh-roh  :)


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:47:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (Comment Deleted) (none / 0)

Oooooh ouch.

That hurt much more than will another four years of GOP governance, thanks to McCain voters like yourself.


by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 05:11:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (none / 0)

The fact that you live in Illinois makes your commitment to voting for McCain (or not voting) easier to deal with.  


by LarsThorwald on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (none / 0)

Well, true....But explain away all the other "big"
states.
Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:02:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (none / 0)

Virginia?  Georgia?  Wisconsin?  Minnesota?  Which ones?


by LarsThorwald on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 06:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama never accused Clinton of racism (none / 0)

..that is a bullshit accusation.

Some Obama supporters have observed Clinton's promotion of racist "uppity negro" (aka "elitist") talking points for cynical reasons, but nobody thinks she herself is a racist.

Obama himself actually said he thought the whole scenario was not racist, but just "Washington politics," which Clinton people on mydd were quick and proud to announce.

So get your talking points straight.


by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:17:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama never accused Clinton of racism (none / 0)

Not enough time or stamina to list all. Started with Jesse Jackson, Jr. on CNN after New Hampshire; Donna Brazile before Nevada re: "Fairy Tale"; on and on.  Straight out of the South Side Chicago playbook.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:22:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama never accused Clinton of racism (none / 0)

So, Clinton's not responsible for Ferraro or Larry Johnson or Rush (whose program they went onto on primary day in TX to "get out the [Operation Chaos] vote") but Obama is responsible for everything everyone out there says about the campaign.

O-kay.


by rhetoricus on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:33:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama never accused Clinton of racism (none / 0)

I believe there is a distinction between demographics and racism.  The comments you refer to, imo, speak to the demographics.  In fact, Barack has made the same comments.


Purity! Or else!
by ChitownDenny on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:38:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (2.00 / 2)

Nothing pisses me off more than someone who calls themselves a "Democrat" who says that they will vote for the Republican before they will vote for the Democrat (if that is the nominee).

People like to say that Obama is the far left of the left, but you know that it isn't true.  Remember when the great orange satan went fucking crazy because Obama discounted the existing netroots, or the time they howled when he made overtures to the Republicans?  Still, there is a consensus over there that Obama will be a good president(and a mirror image of the unreasoning hatred of the "other" candidate we see from both sides).

Watching both websites is a bit like watching two actors do the "mirror" game.  Y'all are so much alike that you can't see the similarities.  You also cannot seem to see the similarities in the candidates.  Everyone is so busy screaming about how awful the "other" is that they forget that we are ultimately, on the same team.

It is disgusting and dispiriting.


accepting McLettuce is like being 9 years old and forced to eat your own cooking
by Sychotic1 on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 03:57:56 PM EST

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (2.00 / 1)

I agree with the poster but I think "who are you going to vote for: McCain or Obama" is a bit premature at this point.  And if I think so, a Clinton supporter is definitely going to think so.

It smacks of taunting.


by Mostly on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:05:04 PM EST

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (none / 0)

Odd, this diary. Because the only person I know who has said she will vote for McCain if "her" candidate doesn't win, is an Obama supporter.

The Hillary supporters I know (& I include myself) are all perfectly willing - even eager - to support the Democratic candidate in the General election this  November. Hillary is going to do it.Why wouldn't we??


by Lynwaz on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:37:18 PM EST

Re: Random Thoughts from an Obama Supporter (none / 0)

Most of the people on this site who say they will support McCain or not vote have been Hillary supporters...
I cannot remember the last time I saw an Obama supporter say it.
Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Sat Apr 19, 2008 at 04:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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